January 12, 2016
I invested the beginning of the month getting the script and thumbs solid for the last 10 pages; now just gotta polish them up… Like I mentioned in Dec, gonna try and post them all before the end of Jan!! Next update on Friday, followed by 4x updates for the next two weeks. See you then~
Oh yeah, and there’s a new wallpaper up on Patreon for $2+ folks, if you’re into angry Dagres.
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Only person being a jade here is you lady >:|
so I looked up Jade as insult http://ask.metafilter.com/81056/You-dirty-jade-Wait-what
seems to mean a slut, as all nasty names for women tend to.
I think your name is beautiful.
I thought she was saying “you green-haired person what bad taste” :(
What a piece of work that lady is… did Angora save her? Given her attitude, I doubt she’d be grateful either way… her attitude seems pretty different from her husband’s.
Next time she’s gored by tayaks, just leave her, Angora.
(panel 4, “withhow”. ps dagre’s droopy lips +1 like retweet)
Hm, but Angora was covered in a blanket… And she’s wearing pants! Pants are clothes! Doesn’t this rude Tanome lady know that pants are clothes? Jeez, these adults.
*Grass and facial moss growing Intensifies
And now we see who wears the trousers in that relationship.
….. yes dear.
Would be good if she still has a fever, but it seems that’s just her charming personality. Which only proves again that the nicest men have the most awful women!
As so often before, this is a story of many layers. Again and again, all around the real world, indigenous children were torn out of their families, forbidden their own language and culture, put under a harsh regiment in the name of Christ and King. It should not be forgotten.
Thanks for keeping on, Der-shing. Hope you get well soon!
So, um, not to be that person in the comments section, but as slavery has historically been (and arguably, still is in some cases) practiced by a a few major religions, I don’t see why Christianity should be singled out here. If your point is the similarities between the Northern Santri religion (Generalism according to the wiki) that 3 out of our 4 present characters presumably practice and Christianity, that kind of makes sense.
But in general, slavery in all cultures and religions should not be forgotten, and perhaps a better emphasis would be that raging assholes can come from any background, but that shouldn’t (necessarily) cast a bad light on other members of their culture/faith.
Let’s not ignore the massive amounts of cultural genocide practiced by Christians and the Western-specific brand of chattel slavery with this defensive bs though, okay? It’s not even about slavery alone, it’s about forced assimilation that’s left hundreds of cultures and languages dead, nations impoverished, people tortured and brutalized, and all Christians say for themselves is ‘but everyone enslaved people!’ Slavery is never good, but not all slavery was like Western slavery. And Western Christianity brutalized North America, Africa, India, South America, Mexico- etc. Show me a widespread, nationwide case of Hindu people forcibly indoctrinating Native people from the lands they ‘conquered.’ Show me the lasting effects, poverty, dead languages, dying cultures, that have an impact today. THEN tell me it’s comparable. Pretending that the situations are equal is willfully ignorant at best.
Also, pretending that this cultural genocide was because of a ‘few bad Christians’ is ridiculous. The forcible assimilation of Native people was wildly popular and considered the kinder option between active massacre and forced assimilation. The saying was ‘Kill the Indian, save the man.” And there were hundreds of people invested in ‘killing the Indian.’ It wasn’t legal in this country for Native people to freely practice their religion until 1978. What religion were they being forced to practice? It wasn’t Hinduism.
I am speaking as a victim of Christians using their religion as a weapon. I am not going to say that Christianity itself is to blame, but people have used it for centuries as a tool for genocide and denying that is obtuse. Nor is it helpful or respectful to dismiss the struggles of our people by comparing the crimes of one culture with another, as it implies that the victim is as culpable as the aggressor.
Pointing out the horrific crimes that Christianity and Christians have done does NOT exonerate other religions, nor does it state that other religions are innocent. If I say that murder is awful, I am not saying that other crimes are better. If I say one person has done awful things, I’m not ignoring that other people have done awful things. Christianity is not above criticism and reproach and it is not above facing the history of pain it’s left in this country.
Christianity is not above criticism or reproach, absolutely true. But unless there’s a reason to choose it over any other religion or culture that practiced slavery or similar atrocities, I still fail to understand why you would call out Christianity in particular as opposed to injustice and evil as a whole. The potential explanations I see here are:
A) Most of the characters at present (most notably Tanome for this point to make sense) have a background in this world’s religions that, upon cursory examination, seems like it’s a parallel or at least similar to Christianity. Therefore, a decent point could be made that if they are intended to be similar, the intolerance for other cultures and the hypocrisy in regards to what’s wrong for whom that was (and still is) displayed by some Christians and Christian nations can be seen in this comic’s equivocal faith as well. If that’s the case, fair point and it certainly seems to be true so far.
B) Christianity is being used in the post as a default example of hypocrisy and use of faith to excuse crimes and atrocities. Seeing as a lot of people would probably be uncomfortable with Luces’s comment if you replaced “Christ and king” with “Allah and king” or “Yahweh and king” or any other pairing you care to throw in there, this would only really work if it’s generally accepted that one can assume that level of hypocrisy with the majority of Christians. I’m not sure most people think that, so it seems like it would still be better to just denounce hypocrisy, slavery, genocide, etc. in general, since they can all be found in any culture/faith.
So yeah, Christianity has a lot of dirty laundry, but unless it’s definitely, absolutely got more than any other religion or culture, I still fail to see why it should be the go to in this instance, unless it was chosen for no particular reason and I’m taking offense at nothing. And if that’s the case, well… sorry? :D
In regards to comparing atrocities, I’ve heard arguments that Islam (at least as practiced by many) has been a match for Christianity, even being more horrible. I don’t know that, and I don’t know I could prove it, but seeing as neither of us has any proof (or links at any rate), and I can’t imagine either of us would be inclined to accept the others should we provide it, I guess well both have to not take each others word for it.
Agreed. Christianity doesn’t have the best track record (not by a long shot), but it is not the only faith with such a record. Additionally, slavery can be and has been condoned with or without religion. *shrug* maybe I’m biased because I don’t particularly like it when my religion is dragged through the mud on a subject that is not exclusive to it. Ivy, I am sorry you have been the victim of Christians using their religion as a weapon. I hope you understand that religion is flawed because people are flawed. I am sure many of the elderly Christians at my church would condemn me for participating in the powerball by buying a ticket, or more importantly for reading a comic with boobies. But in the end, it is not a Christian’s job to judge or condemn. Sometimes we forget that, myself included, and on behalf of my religion I apologize. That is really all I have to say on the matter. I hope you have a good day, Ivy. : )
Interesting thread :)
One thing I would note is that in English-speaking discussions like this (more so since we’re discussing a comic written in English) people are likely more familiar with Christianity than with any other religion. Only a few people you talk to have been directly affected by e.g. Islamic law, while many more will be from cultures, countries or families that have been harmed in some way by Christianity. It’s not so much that Christianity is the go-to example as that mathematics says Christianity is more likely to crop up.
(Come to Spain, for instance, where only 3% of believers identify as non-catholic, and most grievances will be against the Catholic church. )
OK, what I said about not liking Etan for picking on Angora and talking shit about Luca? I now apply it doubly to his wife as well.
Also, lady? You just woke up after apparently being gored by a wild animal with strange fungi growing on your face and your first instinct is to lecture an unknown third party about her lack of clothes? PRIORITIES!
Is it anywhere confirmed that the stuff is growing on her face? bc many people have mentioned it and I thought she was just dirty…. did I miss something?
On the last page she’s scratching green stuff off her face, which wasn’t there when Angora found her or when Etan was pouring alcohol on her wound.
There’s some extra information on Angora’s wiki page that kind of explains what’s going on right now, but I think it’ll be explained (or at least heavily implied) in the next few updates.
I dunno. I actually can empathize with her confusion. Gone from minding her own business to gored by wild animal to WHAT IS THIS GROWING ON MY FACE?! IS IT MOSS?! WHO ARE THOSE PEOPLE?! IS THIS THEIR DOING?! WHY IS MY HUSBAND IN PROXIMITY WITH SOME STRANGE TOPLESS GIRL AND HER PIMP?! WHAT HAS BEEN GOING ON SINCE I’VE BEEN UNCONSCIOUS AND SERIOUSLY WHY IS SOMETHING GROWING ON MY FACE?!
It’s an ugly turn, certainly. It’s also sudden and odd, though I suppose the oddness of it depends somewhat on just how conservative of a culture Tanome is speaking from.
People react to stressful situations in all manner of ways. Some become quiet and compliant. Some run. Some become angry and controlling. Some fixate on something ultimately irrelevant.
It’s still an abrupt turn. Even people who don’t think breasts should be exposed in public wouldn’t *necessarily* react in this way. Maybe stare a bit, be confused, cuddle their husband, ask him what’s going on.
Tanome could have inborn personality issues. And/or she was raised this way. And/or she’s reacting out of fear/lack of control. And/or she’s mentally ill. And/or there is something supernatural happening.
You know, she might even have her own history of being a “jade”, and she’s projecting/not taking any nonsense from someone she believes to be an individual behaving in the same way.
But Angora is innocent as pie.
Well, historically witches were often portrayed as seductresses The conflation between the seduction of dark magic and seductive young naked women is not a new thing.
Tanome sees her as someone who is embracing original sin instead of someone who’s never bit the apple.
I agree. And I applaud Tanome for having a the backbone to not simper and swoon in her hubby’s arms like some Hollywood cliché.
I know that I keep hammering on this, but when Soli robbed and clobbered an unarmed old man a couple of chapters back, everybody cheered her for being a ‘badass Strong Female’, but oh dear, now a badass Strong Female dares to object to nubile halfnaked girls dangling her tits in her husband’s face while she is out of it, and the sh*t hits the fan. Because that nubile tits-in-your-face young woman happens to be someone the readers care for. Why, I don’t know, because she’s done nothing but being a bloody nuisance so far, but she’s a character the readers know, and so they defend her. But I wonder… what if they would wake up after being hurt and find themselves (and their female family members) eye-to-eye with a naked man, who is all but pushing his genitalia in their faces. They would shout ‘pervert’ and ‘rapist’ and possibly (if one of the female familymembers were underage, ‘pedophile’ at him. But when it’s a girl bouncing her tits in another woman’s husband’s face, then she is a repressive bitch and possibly mentally ill! Yeah. Sure.
I was willing to give Angora the benefit of the doubt. I thought that if she was from a culture, some forest tribe, that didn’t use clothes, then I would understand her bafflement and reluctance to a camisole or t-shirt (even though I would still be annoyed at her refusal to cover up when interacting with other cultures that *do* have a hangup about nakedness – I myself do not agree with burquas, but if I were to go to Mekka and enter a mosque there, you bet your boots I wouldn’t do so in a bikini! Angora’s ‘my way or the high way’ ‘tude is getting old, fast). But as we saw a couple of pages ago, Angora used to wear clothes at her old home, SO WHAT IS THE PROBLEM, GIRL?!!! Why have you become so totally allergic to the concept of clothes?! YOUR culture covers up tits, ass, cock and pussy, so why do you play the ‘innocent child of nature doesn’t understand this clothes business’ game?
Because let’s be frank: Angora’s problems with everybody she meets stem from this utter refusal of her to respect the culture of the people of the lands she wanders in.
“if I were to go to Mekka and enter a mosque there, you bet your boots I wouldn’t do so in a bikini!” — Angora is in her own homeland. Tanome is a refugee, recently arrived there. Angora’s compromising by wearing pants. Now it’s everyone else’s turn to compromise.
I feel like the real problem people have with Tanome is the way in which she addressed Angora; her mannerisms, word choice, and posture do not exhibit a questioning tone, but a condemning, dogmatic lecturing one. She does not (or has not yet) turn to her husband and ask what he is doing with a naked girl in the camp, but insinuates that she knows Etan has laid down rules about (maybe?) traveling together, not sex. “I don’t know what my husband told you, but this isn’t a charity (that doesnt sound like a sex thing) or a circus (I can’t really gather anything from this).” She then insinuates that Angora is not a civilized person since she has no clothes, which isn’t far off. After impying little to nothing about infidelity (that I can see yet), Tanome then practically snarls at Angora, calling her, in essence, a filthy slut. Maybe she came to the conclusion after Angora defended her lack of clothes, I don’t know. At this point, we really won’t know much about this new character until the next page illuminates further interaction, but I personally don’t get a “confused” vibe from Tanome, more like a self-righteous one. But maybe I’m totally off. This is just my opinion based on my observations, so take it however you want.
Yes. You said pretty much what I was thinking but couldn’t articulate. I can’t say how I’d react in her place, having never been gored in a jungle, but coming across as very antagonistic to people you don’t know is not how you make friends.
please, let pinter punch her in the mouth
Nah, let Angora do it.
Honestly, I’m voting for Angora to stand up and say “That place you want to go to? The monastery? I’m from there. Fuck off.”
Be interesting to see if that’s trauma talking or just her natural charming personality.
Also, I’m a bit puzzled about her “this isn’t a charity or a circus.” You’re in the jungle, baby. Rules related to civilization and clothing are harder to apply when you’re in the middle of nowhere with no access to supplies. Not to mention her own clothes are torn, filthy, and bloodied.
Ah, I love stories where there are enough well-fleshed out women for some of them to be genuinely unlikeable/assholes.
Yup! Women are just people and some people are butts.
Anyone that *has* an asshole, has the potential for *being* one.
you win the internets
all of them.
This is a good point.
“Thank the heavens I’m alive! I won’t acknowledge your part to play in that miracle, however I will be an insufferable cunt in exchange. Deal? Deal.”
I don’t think she’s made the connection between Angora and not having an open wound.
Maybe she could say she’s just a fat dude… with weird distribution.
Oh come on Pinter, I mean she can be self-centered and rude, and she did steal your stuff but she did save Tanome’s life.
Well this sure is different from the sketchcomic! At least I’m pretty sure I remember that part correctly… Maybe that pious personality of Etan’s is a front if his wife is so quick to make accusations like that!
Yeah, the sketch comic was… not great, haha. I revamped most of the last half heavily!
To be fair, my legs always look like that.
Oh yay! The wife lives!
Oh no! She’s a heinous bitch!
C’mon guys, cut her some slack, the lady is obviously and not without reason having a nervous breakdown. Pretty much every human we saw had a strongly negative initial reaction to Angora’s nudity. Yet it is the woman that gets judged so harshly and called names for it? Can I say sexism?
We might find out she is indeed awful, but we might as well find her apologizing once she calms down and gets a grasp on the situation.
i think it’s mostly calling her a jade. nobody else has called her a slut, nor in such a condescending tone
No, the men have – so far – tried to gang-rape her (because naked girl equals slutty-slutness equals ‘asking for it’, right?) and ‘witch’.
“because naked girl equals slutty-slutness equals ‘asking for it’, right?” — I don’t get it – are you being ironic? Because in your other comments it sure looks like you’re arguing that naked girl equates sexual harassment and seduction to adultery equates the right to order her around. Which boils down to the same.
Yes, she’s being ironic.
Keep the comments relaxed :) This is a prickly page for a lot of people but by and large we’re all on the same side.
in fact i think if she were a guy, this exchange would be received even worse
Agreed. It’s sexism that’s the issue – plenty of women are sexist against women. Sexist women can sometimes be more irritating than sexist men, because why would you do that, and this may be what people are reacting to.
also, “civilized people”.
Remember that Pinter himself contrasted Angora with “normal” people — and Angora caught him saying “normal” twice in that diatribe.
Of course, given the way the previous flashback went (she started wearing pants a few panels later), I am wondering whether she will start wearing a shirt before we find out why she was naked to begin with.
Um, good question. Maybe because she’s abusive with everyone, not just Angora? So it’s not received as just cultural prejudices but overall bad character?
Screw you and your civilization!
I got earth magic!
Oh good, all the women in Pinter’s life are pains-in-the-butt. (And a good deal of men, too… :p)
Finally a sane woman! Clearly this young tramp is a poison ivy out to seduce her husband with her young perky boobs.
It is only a matter of time before gripped by unnatural lusts these naive males suffer restless sleep, then the witch joins them in bed and steals their seed to give birth to demon babies.
Is it not written in the book of Chastity: “Thou shalt not be a noob and go for the boob”?
Whoa. Harsh much?
Well, that’s one hell of a quick recovery from post shock trauma to being a bossy.
Remember kids, when a woman dares to question a strange nekkid girl all but in her husband’s bed, and then even dares to *order* her husband to get some light so she can get at the bottom of this new and disturbing situation, she’s not being a ‘Strong Female’, she’s BOSSY.
And what would you call a man who dares to question a strange naked man in his wife’s bed and order his wife to light the damn light to get at the bottom at this? Do you call him ‘bossy’ too? Or is ‘bossy’ something that is reserved for women who order men around?
Why would you question a man in your wife’s bed? It’s your wife’s bed – she decides who goes in, so maybe ask her.
Apart from that, Angora was neither in bed with Etan, nor “all but pushing [her] genitalia in [his] face”. She was and is in her own bed, even under a blanket until Tanome started yelling.
And yes, “bossy” is something I’d call someone who obviously doesn’t even grasp a situation, but nevertheless jumps to conclusions and assumes they have the right to order about strangers.
When people are scared and stressed, sometimes they’re not polite. Sometimes they’re even downright rude. If your house is on fire, you are not going to say, “Darling, I daresay the house is currently a tad more immolated than it should be. Would you be a dear and fetch my coat while I call the fire brigade?” You’re going to be spitting out curse words, trying to figure out how your house caught on fire once you’re somewhere safe, and quite possibly you and your housemates will be blaming each other using extremely invective terms.
“assumes they have the right to order about strangers.”
I have come from the future to tell you that on the next page she is holding a spear, and seems very prepared to use it. And also that they’re in the jungle away from civilization. I’d say it’s perfectly clear that she does have the right to order about strangers.
Protecting your own safety is not being “bossy”. It’s sensible.
FunFact: Sometimes it doesn’t matter what a person’s gender is, they’re just a jerk.
Mood snapping so violent you have to wonder if this is one of the ones Angora was warned of.
Yes, the transition is very abrupt.
I’m assuming Angora wasn’t so well blanketed as to completely conceal her toplessness?
Hey, boars! Wanna take another shot at her?
I dislike her already.
I’ve known the only answer this person deserves pretty much all of my life. “Who are YOU to tell me what to do?”
Of course, every person like this I’ve ever encountered in my life NEVER have a good answer to that question. And, as such, they are NOT a person who has any right to tell me what to do.
Despite all the flowery language they may surround it with, this is a fairly simple question and a fairly simple answer. Conversation beyond those two points is most often a waste of time, no matter how often they try to flood you with excessive use of words…
I do not appreciate the stank face on this hwoman. Regardless of this, the comic is lovely and I’m much addicted. Ah, thank you.